I’ve known Pinch for at least 10 years now, running in the same social circles. He graciously decided to come over to talk about his life and document many of the stories he’s told me in person at the many parties we’ve been to together. Pinch was a founding member of the English Dogs and played drums for the Damned for 20 years. He currently is playing with the all-star band, Spike & The Gimme Gimmes (formerly Me First & The Gimme Gimmes). This conversation happened on 7/21/25.
Part 1 is here.
In part 2, there’s more talk on the English Dogs and the influence of the American metal scene on the British punk scene, recording “Where Legend Began”, seeing Slayer’s first UK show, hanging out with Metallica, the Levitation Game, and an opportunity arises to buy Lars Ulrich’s drum kit that was used on “Master Of Puppets”.
Audio is in the YouTube link. Scroll down for the transcription.
Ted: So you quit the English Dogs, but you obviously got back into it. You didn’t quit music. You came back to it at some point.
Pinch: Yeah, I was fanning it in around with little, you know, rock projects and, you know, that great Overland Drive thing with Bonnie, the original singer. We had a, oh my God, we had a terrible band in Peterborough with Gizz and these other three rock dudes called… we were originally called Fire Horse. Oh my God. Oh my God! I mean, thankfully, I don’t have any recordings of it. But it was so just by the numbers. They were very good guitar players. Don’t get me wrong. All the musicians in the band were good. The singer was good. But it was just so like stereotypical. It wasn’t cutting a new path into anything. I grew my hair and I got a big old drum kit and I was like, “Oh, this is great. I’ve always wanted to be a rock drummer.” But ultimately it just fizzled out into nothing. Thankfully. And then we recruited some different members and got an even worse name. We called ourselves Monkey Jungle. (laughter) It was hilarious. We had this list of band names. Nobody could agree on a name, of course. So we had like a short list of, I don’t know, six names. It was like “Right, that’s it! We’re just drawing a piece of paper out of our hat as to what we’re going to be called.” Monkey Jungle. Oh fuck! But we were a self contained machine. We were definitely influenced by like Queensryche, you know, that kind of thing. More of the prog end of metal, which I was kind of into. I thought we were actually quite good. And we got a bit of attention here and there, and some good reviews, and some journalists were into us. And we were a machine. We used to travel with our own PA, our own road crew, proper fucking setup. We were self sufficient. We could gig swap with other bands from other cities like, all right, well, if you can bring like, you know, a busload or a few van loads of fans, then we’ll put a gig on for you. And it worked out really well. It was kind of a good little rock collective we had going.
Thank God we didn’t carry that on. Fucking Monkey Jungle. And that morphed into a band. We kept the bass player… actually it was pretty much the same band, apart from the singer, I think. And we were more, I don’t know really what we were, like almost like Soundgarden-y kind of stuff with a bit of like Massive Attack thrown in with it. And we got this crazy new singer from Bristol called Sean Atkins, and he had a great really individual voice. We recorded a couple of demos. He was great. And we were called Down Revenation, which I thought was quite good. You know, certainly an improvement on Monkey Jungle.
Ted: (laughs) Monkey Jungle was kind of cool.
Pinch: Oh my God, are you serious? You can picture the merch, right? It was fucking horrible. So you know, I kept myself busy doing little projects like that just to kind of keep my hand in. Because I was a carpet fitter by day and rock drummer by night.
Ted: So you’ve always been working more than one job.
Pinch: Pretty much. Yeah, yeah. You know, when you’re touring musician and you get to the end of a run and you’re not moving anymore, you feel a very weird disconnect. Because you’re going back to a world that you don’t really know how to operate in. So unless you’ve got something that grounds you and puts you back into the real world very quickly. A lot of people I know, they suffer from depression and just disassociation. Because when you’re on the road, especially in my last, I don’t know, 25 plus years, you know, I’ve been at the level where we’re on tour buses and nice hotels, good venues. You know, decent catering, great equipment, good organization. You’re kind of taken out of the real world and you’re put into a world where everything is kind of done for you. So you can be a dumb child, and people will do everything for you. To the point where… you know, we have a keyboard player Monty, with the Damned. Couldn’t open his frigging hotel room doors. He’s an absolute virtuoso keyboard player. But I always wondered why he wore slip on shoes all the time, and it’s probably because he can’t do his laces up. So you get like weird little things like that, where there’s always somebody to open your hotel room door for you on tour. At home, there ain’t! Nobody’s going to cook your meals. There’s going to be no like nice little, you know, snack corner waiting for you. There’s not going to be a bottle of water handed to you as you want one. Nobody’s going to towel you down when you’re a bit sweaty. You really got to get back into real life as soon as you can. And it’s a it’s a weird thing for some people to deal with it.
I because I still work in production. I see it all the time where people are disassociated with real life to the point where you think “You’re a fucking asshole! You’ve just been like mollycoddled all the way through your life with somebody blowing smoke up your ass, that you don’t know what the real world is. And you think the world owes you a living.” And it’s a really sad thing that I can now laugh at, you know, but I also feel sorry for them. Because I mean, if they stopped doing it, they’re dead. Look at Lemmy. You know, Lemmy stopped smoking and drinking two bottles of Jack Daniels a day…
Ted: Well, he had to, I think.
Pinch: Well, not exactly. His doctor actually told him you need to go back to what you were. So, you know, I get that people need to deal with it on their own terms. But I just find it very sad, where it is quite Spinal Tappy. You know, that was not completely out of the writer’s imaginations. That was done on studies of real bands that they went to see. I mean, one of the bands is Saxon, that UK ’70s, ’80s heavy metal band. That whole thing of the the the the wrapped cucumber down the spandex. That comes directly from Saxon. I actually played with Saxon. I opened for Saxon in Peterborough, I don’t know, which… maybe Fire Horse, maybe Monkey Jungle, I don’t know, one of those rock bands. And they were like, yeah, “Biff has granted you an audience.” And we’re like, “What?” (laughs), “Come with me, you’re going to meet Biff.”, who’s the lead singer if nobody knows who he is.
Ted: I got a picture of me with him.
Pinch: Right. So we go up and there he is with his, you know, his rock wig on and his spandex. At that time already quite an old dude looking… trying to look like a teenager, which, you know, we can all talk about. But yeah, he sat down and proceeded to tell us the ins and outs of rock music. And he was just spouting all these cliches, not knowing that I was already probably 15 years into my musical career at that time. We kind of left after a few minutes just howling about it. How ridiculous it was. Of course, when we see Spinal Tap, it’s like, “That’s fucking real! That is so real!” (laughter)
Ted: Well, one thing I want to go back to… I mean, I think you’re an accomplished drummer. I mean, I think a lot of people would say that, but you’re still always learning. You said you go to YouTube.
Pinch: Of course.
Ted: And one thing that I thought was really interesting, and I asked you this at a party once or something, Nicko McBrain from Iron Maiden, one his handlers was going to have you sit on the side of the stage so you observe him. That didn’t work out. But I asked you if there is anything you can learn from that? And you said, “Of course!”
Pinch: Oh, hell yeah! When you’re sat that close to somebody in real time… I do it all the time. Now, if I see a drummer… I did it last night! I worked a show last night at Sycuan Casino, where it was a Caldean show and the opening DJ had a drummer and percussionist with him. He wasn’t a sit down. He was a stand up, but he had a couple of timbales, a snare drum… I don’t know what the… dambuque or something like that, the Middle Eastern drum, a couple of cymbals and a couple of bits. And once I heard him play, I just spent the whole set just watching him. And we had a fantastic talk afterwards, just about drums and gear and technique and stuff, because he plays in a completely different world to me. Middle Eastern music is, you know, it’s a very exciting, vibrant, rhythm driven form of music that obviously perks my ear up because it’s so percussive. So, yeah, you can learn a lot by just literally laser focusing on how these guys interact with their music. A lot of people will overplay because, yeah, they’re super duper drummers and they’ve got all their chops down and they know all their rudiments. But really, the successful drummers are the ones that will play for the song. They won’t jump over where a beautiful guitar line is or a lyric or a phrase. Each part of the music has to have its own space. And there are spaces for nice, tasty little fills. Or there are great songs with no fills in them. ABBA springs to mind. ABBA has virtually no fills in any of their music. And it’s some of the greatest music composed in history. You know, it’s just so fantastic to listen to. And it’s not crazy difficult. But every musician plays around every other musician to form the whole that comes out as just an incredible sound that will be around forever. So there you go. Middle Eastern music to ABBA in one sentence.
Ted: English Dogs, you took a break from them. And then when did the “Invasion of the Porky Men” come out? That’s how I discovered you. That was like ’83.
Pinch: Yeah. So that was in the first year of English Dogs. First year of English Dogs was the four piece, you know, kind of GBH clones, if you like, that style of music, because none of us really knew how to play that well. We were all very much learning. Crazy singer. He also kind of fell out of it because of the endless violence. He couldn’t put up with it anymore. Of course he’s, you know, frontman, he’s the target a lot of time as well. He kind of got out of it. We decided to keep it going with a new singer who we got from a band up north from Halifax called Ultra Violent. And he was a right character. We’d actually played with Ultra Violent before. We knew Ade Bailey was definitely nutty enough and imposing enough to be a great frontman. And he had a great, you know, punk voice. But it kind of coincided at the time with that… Do you remember that demo? There was a there was a cassette going around at the time. And on one side it had the Mustaine Metallica tracks. And at the end of that, the end of the Metallica tracks, was two tracks by Exciter. And on the other side of it was “Show No Mercy” from Slayer. And of course, as soon as we heard this, we’re like, “Oh, my God, they’re fucking amazing! It’s absolutely amazing.” So, you know, that’s what we want to be like. We want to take the punk thing and we just want to integrate some of these metal things into it. So we recorded this EP called “To the Ends of the Earth”. And it was our best effort incorporating some of that feeling of the thrash scene from America into UK hardcore punk. And I think it was quite successful. We didn’t want to scare away all the punks with tons of guitar solos and, you know, million different time changes. We didn’t realize that these thrash bands were like, you know… influenced on Metallica, obviously Judas Priest, heavy influence on Metallica. You didn’t kind of realize that till later. So, I mean, as English Dogs, we all went down en masse to the old Marquee in London to see Slayer’s first ever gig. Which was just mind blowing. I think it was 1985. I may be corrected, but I’m pretty sure it was 1985. (It was June 24th, 1985) And we were just spellbound. And the old door to the dressing room was right behind the drum kit. And every three songs, Lombardo would disappear into the dressing room for a few seconds, come back onto his kit, be like (snort) “OH! What’s he got back there! He’s got some magic stuff back there.” All right, all right. We get it. We get why they’re kind of up there in tempo. And we were actually on tour with Discharge at the time.
Ted: And they went metal, too.
Pinch: Yeah…
Ted: Or that was later.
Pinch: Yeah, but no, it was it was around about that time. And yeah, I remember a sound check, playing them over the PA, “Hell Awaits”. And they were like, “Oh, that’s bullshit. That’s that’s sped up in the studio.” We’re like, nuh uh! We fucking went to see that at the Marquee. It was even faster live! Honestly! And they couldn’t believe it because they came from this, you know, the throne of being the pinnacle of brutality and speed. Now Slayer came along and just made them sound obsolete. Especially when they (Discharge) just like overnight, you know, decided to go in this really ill advised… I don’t even know what you would call it… direction, you know, just really bad metal. You know, you saw it, Ted. Yeah, it was fucking horrific.
Ted: I’m wondering, yeah, why would they… so they were talked into it?
Pinch: They were on Clay records. So English Dogs signed to Clay records on the back of touring a lot with GBA and Discharge, and they both recommended us to Mike Stone, who owned Clay records. So at the time, it was it was pretty much the biggest punk indie in the UK. But he also had a rock roster, and that’s what he was REALLY into. And that’s why English Dogs had to take him to court because he had this pet project, this bank called Demon, and he was funneling all the money from our record sales into launching Demon’s career. And we literally had to take the guy to court. You know, lucky old English Dogs. We were the only band that had a problem getting money out of Clay records. But we ended up winning the lawsuit, which is really weird. Being 18 years old or whatever it was and involved in, you know, suing a record label for nonpayment of royalties. But, you know, our records were like right up there and at the top of the indie charts every year. We have clippings from Sounds magazine and stuff where it’s like, you know, number one album of the year, I don’t know, the Smiths, number two, Depeche Mode, number three, English Dogs. It’s like, what the fuck? Number four, the Cure. It was like, look, we obviously sold fucking shit tons of records. It’s right there! Where’s the fucking money? And he was, “oh, no, you know, you know, you guys signed like…” No we didn’t. So we obviously, we took contracts that we had to a lawyer. And then we were so fucking stupid, we signed with another record label who did exactly the same thing to us. So not the smartest tools in the box, but, you know, it’s a recurring theme of the music business. Musicians don’t have enough business sense about them. Or they didn’t then. They do now.
Ted: So when did you meet Metallica? It was when you were in the English Dogs.
Pinch: Yeah, that was the kind of the second phase when we signed to Music for Nations, who was a London metal independent.
Ted: Metallica, Manowar…
Pinch: Yeah. Yeah. So they released all the early Metallica stuff in the UK. There was this guy there, Mark Palmer, who was a real big fan of the band. And he thought we had a good future with, you know, being the best at what we were doing in the UK. We could have been competing with those kind of bands that were coming out of America. He was like, well, why aren’t there any English bands that are doing that? So it was good on him. You know, he gave us a leg up. So first, we were stupid enough to not have any guidance when we… We previously did a record called “Forward Into Battle”, which was our real, “all right, fuck it. We’re just going like full punk metal, but more metal punk.” And we couldn’t really play that well, but we wrote really catchy tunes. And the recording was terrible. We were in a studio with people who were used to working with pop bands. They had no idea what to do with us. Looking back on it now is hilarious. Like these guys were clueless about how to record us. And our gear was subpar average. You know, I’ve recently seen pictures of my drum kit and it was just like, they was almost like tea towels taped to every drum, because it was so fast that they didn’t know what to do with it to control tones, so they just deadened everything. A lot of people really, really like that record. And looking back on it, it was, you know, it was a bunch of kids playing beyond their ability. But it was almost controlled. The next record we did on Music for Nations, they should have had somebody down in the studio with us to rein us in, because we were taking a lot of LSD, a lot of cheap speed, drinking a lot. And we were off, you know, off the reins. And it was like, well, just do what you do: Make another record that’s good like your last one. So they put us in this studio with a producer who was only really interested in how much cocaine he could get up his nose every day. And really didn’t push us in any kind of direction. Didn’t edit our songs. I mean, we ended up that record… it was a double album with eight songs on it. Which is ridiculous.
Ted: I like the longer songs.
Pinch: But it was fucking stupid. It was like it was fucking 20 different time changes, 18 different parts.
Ted: Mercyful Fate did it.
Pinch: I know, but we were we were supposed to be this punk metal thing. We should have just been reined back in. “All right, that’s great. Let’s take the first three minutes of this song and make it into a song. And then the next three minutes and make it into a song.” We had like eight, nine minute songs. It was fucking so stupid. But that’s what you get when you get a bunch of kids who are, you know, let off the leash and they’ve got all kinds of weird drugs coursing through their systems and they think they know best about everything. So we delivered this record and Music for Nations was like. “Oh, OK. Well, we’ll give it a punt”. And it failed so bad, we just parted ways with Music for Nations. And that was kind of the end of English Dogs again for a little while. We were super disenchanted about everything, because like (mockingly) “we thought it was really good. We thought we were onto something…”, But there were other bands already doing that. They were called Prog Rock bands. They were doing it. And that was their own thing. We should never have been within a million miles of that. Because we still couldn’t play our instruments super well. But we were a lot better. We were learning. So, yeah, that was end of English Dogs Part Two, pretty much. Oh, and that’s when we met Metallica.
Ted: Yeah. So you had a funny story about that.
Pinch: Yeah. So we were recording. The album’s called “Where Legend Began”. And we were doing it at this studio in London. And we got a call from our label guy, Mark Palmer. He’s like, “Oh, we got some guys in town want to meet you. You know, they’ve got some gigs or some time off.” And I was oh, that’s cool. Who’s that? “Metallica”. I’m like “fuck off.” (laughter) “So yeah, yeah. They’ve got the address. They’re going to come down and just they just want to hang out.” So yeah, fucking it’s a joke, it’s not going to happen. And sure enough, about I don’t know, five, six o’clock that night. In walks James Hetfield, Cliff Burton and Kirk Hammett. And, you know, of course, we’re all gushing like… they’re all, we’re all swapping stories… “You want to come out for a night on the town?” We’re like, “Yes!” So we went out for a few beverages and ended up back at their hotel. Pretty late at night. I guess they were staying in an OK hotel. I don’t know what point of their career they were they were at, but they were doing pretty well.
Ted: Had to be “Ride The Lightning” name. Could have been Master maybe.
Pinch: It might have been Master. Anyway, so we were pretty drunk back at the hotel room. And there was tons of beers up in the room. These bottles. I don’t remember if it was bottles of Heineken and bottles of Corona. I can’t fucking remember. But anyway, James is all fucking pissed, drunk, and starts fucking tossing these bottles out of his bedroom window. And it’s facing in to a courtyard, which has a glass roof with, like, you know, the inner courtyard of the hotel. You know, so there’s these bottles raining down on this glass. The next thing we know… of course, we thought it was a great idea. Of course, we joined in. But the next thing we know is security rapping on the door. “You’re throwing shit out the window… smashing on the roof.” Well, James is all like, “Man, I don’t know what’s going on. I just woke up.” We’re all hiding in the room like (trying not to laugh). And James just completely was like, “No. Bullshit. Not us, dude. Probably some other room. I just woke up. You guys need to go about your business. Thanks for looking after us.” So we get back in the room. We’re all fucking rolling howling about that. And then we get to the drunk point where we start doing stupid games. (Gizz) was like “Have you ever done the levitation game?” And they’re like, “What’s the levitation game?” It’s like, “Alright. So we’re going to pick the biggest bloke in the room.” And the biggest bloke in the room at the time, was Cliff Burton. “He’s going to sit on the floor. We’re all going to like pile our hands on his head, one over the other like this…” Well, actually, first, what we’re going to do is four of us. So there’s like me under one knee, Ade under the other, James under the other and maybe Gizz under the other. Oh no, Kirk because he was like kind of the weadiest at the time. No, it has to be the weakest and smallest people trying to lift the biggest person. So we’ve got, you know, two fingers like this put together, you know, like like a double gun point kind of thing. And “Alright, on three, we’re all going to try and lift him as high as we can. Here we go. One, two, three.” We lift him eight inches off the floor. We putt him back down.
They’re like, “OK, like, all right, now we’re going to put our hands on top of his head. And we’re going to do a count to 10 where we put pressure on his head. Cliff, you’re going to have to hold your neck still because it’s going to be like, you know, four dudes pressing down on your head.”
Ted: Who is saying all this?
Pinch: Gizz was driving it, because he was a bit of a fucking party weird game dude that I won’t get into. But this definitely came from Gizz. He’s like, “What we’re going to do, we’re all going to focus our energy on the top of his head. We’re going to count to 10. And then after 10, we’re going to do the same thing and we’re going to try and lift him again. So here we go. One. Two. Three…” Got to 10, lifted him right up to the ceiling and fucking slammed his face into the ceiling of the hotel room. It’s a really crazy thing about focused energy and humans, and teamwork, or whatever.
Ted: Poor Cliff! Was he knocked out or anything?
Pinch: Nah, he wasn’t knocked out. Everybody was just on the floor fucking howling about it. Yeah, that was that was a good one. If I ever meet James Hetfield again, I bet he remembers it. And Kirk, I bet he remembers.
Ted: Well, if I see Kirk at Comic Con, I’ll bring it up.
Pinch: The Levitation Game.
Ted: Oh, and you had a funny story about how you did “Forward Into Battle” or one of your metal albums for the English Dogs, and presented it to them and you were all proud like, yeah, you influenced us and they were all pissed off that you turned metal.
Pinch: Yeah, yeah, they were they were bent because we all had long hair. They were like, “What happened to the mohawks? And why are you wearing like a bullet belt now?” I’m like, because of YOU, you fuckers! “Oh, man, we really dug all that early stuff.” And we’re like, FUCK! I really pissed on their fireworks. We stayed pretty good friends for a very short amount of time, and they invited us to shows. So I remember walking into the backstage of one. I can’t even remember where it was. And I don’t even know what tour it was. But I had a cassette of a… I don’t know if it was a rough mix, but it wasn’t mastered or released or anything, of that “Where Legend Began” album. And I had a Sony Walkman and I give it to Lars Ulrich. I’m like “There you go, Lars, check this out! There’s our new record.” And he listens to 20 seconds of it. He takes the headphones off. He’s like, “Man! That kick drum is insanely loud! Are you going to mix that down?” And like on reflection, I’m like, what the fuck? Lars Ulrich is telling me MY kick drum is too loud! (laughter) That was pretty funny.
And then another gig they invited us to. I can’t even remember where it was. Might have been like Bradford or Sheffield or somewhere. But, you know, we’re backstage with them before the gig. And we’re in their dressing room and drinking and like bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla. It’s like, at the time they were drinking very heavily, of course we were drinking very heavily, and they’ve just got like bottles and bottles of liquor back there. “Can I have some of that? Can I have some of that?” They’re like “Have whatever you want! That shit there…” I think it was like a bottle of brandy. “I don’t know why they give us that. None of us drink it. We don’t even fucking like it.” And of course, in my teenage, you know, punk rock head, this light goes off: Oh, they don’t like it. They don’t even want it. So they go on stage. We had a few more drinks. They go on stage. I’m completely brazen, walk backstage while they’re playing, into their dressing room, and grab the bottle of brandy and jacket it. And as I’m walking out the room, their TM’s back there in another room, sees me walking into their dressing room and back out again. He’s like, “Who the fuck are you?!” Completely bust me with the bottle of booze. “Security! Get him out of here!” Fortunately, they just threw me back into the gig. So we were very, very badly behaved. But they were also influences on us for that bad behavior. So Metallica: a lot to answer for!
Ted: And that’s the last time you saw them, right? When you got kicked out of the dressing room?
Pinch: Yeah, I think so, because it wasn’t long after that, that we got the message from Mark at Music For Nations that Cliff had died in that bus crash. Like it was really shortly after that. So I mean, obviously, if you if you want to do a bit of, you know, Internet detective sleuthing, you could probably say, well, you were at that gig and then that’s when they left to go to Scandinavia and that’s when it happened. (Metallica played 9/11/86 in Bradford, 9/17/86 in Manchester, 9/18/86 in Sheffield, 9/19/86 in Newcastle, 9/20/86 in Birmingham, and 9/21/86 at the Hammersmith. Cliff died on 9/27/86)
But it was a really short time. I’m just thankful we had like a really amazing time with them, because they were and have been since, you know, a super massive influence and inspiration. And even to this day, like the great conversation which can start an hour’s long debate is, “Alright. Greatest three Metallica albums in that order.” And then, oh my God, we’ve gone through them song by song. And everybody has a different opinion. And there’s valid reasons for why every one is number one, two or three. They’re that influential.
Ted: Yeah. I don’t think they get enough credit for that these days with the Internet kids or whatever. So you had the opportunity, but didn’t, to buy Lars’ drum kit that was used on “Ride The Lightning”.
Pinch: Yes. Again, I got a call from Mark at Music for Nations. He was like, “So Lars is selling his drum kit. Do you want to buy it?” I’m like, well, how much does he want for it? He’s like “A thousand quid.” I’m like, OK, where’s it at? I’ll go and have a look at it. It was a lot of money at the time.
Ted: It’s a lot of money now!
Pinch: Well, not really.
Ted: Oh, OK. I don’t know.
Pinch: It’s like $1,300.
Ted: Yeah, well, is it a lot of money.
Pinch: Is it a lot of money for a drum kit? Anyway, so I traipse down to this storage place in London and like, I’ve come to look at this kit. He’s like, oh, it’s over here. And it was in this flight case, that no shit, was like the length of your bar that we’re sitting at right here, probably by about the width. And it’s got… it was a Chrome… I think it was a Trauma kit… I’m not quite sure. But it was the Chrome kit with two bass drums in there. And I think they were missed mismatched bass drums, as I remember. Like one was definitely a Trauma that belonged to that kit. And one didn’t look like it belonged to that kit. It was still a chrome wrap. And then all the trap toms and snare drum, there was no hardware, no cymbals. And the guy was like, “Yeah, well, it’s a thousand quid, but you got to take the whole thing.” I’m like, what, the case as well? He’s like, yeah, you got to take the case. You know, the whole thing’s going to go. I’m like, oh, man, I can’t fucking do that. You know, what am I going to do with this massive…? How the hell am I going to get it out of here?
Ted: How am I going to get it in my room?
Pinch: Yeah, I got nowhere to store it. So I passed. Pretty much on the basis that it was a take it or leave it deal with this massive case. And I kind of kicked myself a little bit. But honestly, I was so stupid. I would have probably just chopped that kit in for who knows what, over the years. I wouldn’t have that kit now. I mean, God knows what happened to it, but somebody got a fucking bargain right there. And I guess it still exists somewhere. You know, whether people know it’s that kit or not, I don’t know. So, yeah, I thought I was being smart.
Ted: Yeah, but I guess not.
Pinch: Yeah, that’s a bit of a bummer. (laughter)
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